Life In Wake Forest NC.....

Reblogging. Suggesting. Thanking you.

Leesa - great post and good comments. It is important to speak to a local Realtor because they will know more details.

Leesa:  This is such a great and timely post. I recently almost had a deal go south because the buyer's were using Zillow as their holy grail.  They actually said "Appraisals look backward, Zillow looks forward."  Oh my...where do I start???

Thanks, Mary Kay - greatly appreciated!

Great education for the public!  They also previously used trustee deed sales - haven't checked lately because frankly I don't care!    In our neck of the woods I have seen them go outside of neighborhoods here too.  Some neighborhoods with big time amenities (community pools, tennis, gated, guard gated) could mean a $20 ppsf difference where I live.

Most definitely, Sharon - it is so important to consult with a local real estate agent that knows the local real estate market!

I have some buyers doing the same thing at the moment - we had a LONG talk.

Leesa, the Zestimates for the homes on my block are now about $300,000 low.  It's amazing.

Leesa, you stated what Zillow is about so very clearly and concisely. Thanks for Mary Kay for re-blogging--I wouldn't have wanted to miss this. I've suggested and re-blogged too.

Leesa, can we dub you the anti-Zillow evangelist? We certainly need one, that's for sure. Zillow will never replace the need for a local agent, ever.

They really are all over the board Renee - I have seen some real doozies in this area for being WAY off on zestimates.

Wow, Pat, that is a HUGE difference!  They are off here as well and it just pains me to see so many in the public take those estimate literally.

Leesa:  Thank you for saying it.  I have a friend who watches the price of his home on Zillow daily.  It's completely unhealthy, and completely inaccurate.  If you need to know the price of your home to figure out if you can afford to sell, call a Realtor®.

Seller's are set up for failure when they think their home is worth $200,000 more than what it's actually worth.  

 

Thanks so much, Lottie - I appreciate that!  Zillow can be very dangerous in the wrong hands!

Excellent thoughts.

I get so irked with the whole Zillow thing William - it's fun, it novel and that is about it.

Zillow is a fun toy - play with it but don't take it seriously.  Great post!

did u know u can read celebrity gossip on their site?

I have some friends like that as well, Chris Ann - CRAZY!

Thanks Blog Do, I mean Lyn!

Thanks for the reblog Maya!  It is sad that so many take Zillow literally - it is just not the best method by a long shot!

Leesa, 

Well said.  Zillow is a jumping off point to start, but "the devil is in the details!"  You need to know more than what Zillow can know to make intelligent real estate decisions.  

Also, the data it pull is only as accurate as the source they got it.  In Atlanta, the counties can have vastly incorrect data for square footage for a home, such that it might list a basement where a home is on slab or 1500 extra or less square footage....  way off in a number of cases.

All the best, Michelle

Two Thumbs Up!!  Way UP!

It is a shame that people let themselves be so easily misled by a pop site.

Particularly when we are talking about considering the fate of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

It isn't like they are risking $0.99 for a defective Android Ringtone app or something.

ETA:  Had to join the AR Reblog wave on this post.  You found a sore spot of mine!

I am so with you on this one.  Zillow is nothing but a stumbling block to marketplace realities.  The only thing they've done right, in my opinion, is to show up here at Active Rain.  They will talk to us here and I give them credit for that.

Very well said!

Zillow is also annoying me with their constant solicitations to advertise with them

Leesa

How true; Zillow has it's bugs and I find it diffucult at times. On my way back down to Southport for awhile soon.

So true, Margaret - it's fun to play around with but it can't be taken seriously!

Seriously, Greg?  No, I had no idea - i may have to rethink my disdain for the site now.....  ;)

You are correct. Zillow has its place, but my perfect example of where it falls short is Gibson Island, MD 21056... Sales for the last several were all between $1.4m-$1.9m and the home values are listed far below that on Zillow.... The island's sales before the economy turned south a bit were more commonly in the low $3m. but still... When there is a unique neighborhood, you'd need to get there in person, see the homes and reveiw the numbers... In the case of Gibson Island, since it is a gated community, Zillow cannot do this. I think their value is diminished in places like gated communities where you or your Realtor must have gate access to actually view the properties.

Hello Leesa,

Just yesterday I had this conversation with a seller. I was able to explain to my seller the issues that Zillow has arriving to home prices.

My seller dismissed his pre-conceived notion about the price of his home and listed to my expertise.

Great post!

Indeed, no local knowledge and information that is not current! Why do clients flock there????

Great post! Keep it up. The reason real estate agencies still work and "private sellers" dont is the personal touch and the professionalism of it all.

Right on the money Leesa. I think part of the job for agents is to know the limitations of sites like Zillow and educate borrowers. Great post. Thank you.

On their site, Zillow has a disclosure of what their margin of error is for all areas. In my area, you can be off by 10-20% if you take their numbers as gospel.

Great posting of the truth. I had a seller on a listing a few years ago call me and say Zillw had their Zestimate $125,000 LESS than we had it priced. I explained to her the builder had recorded their property at 1250 square feet less than it actually was and Zillow had no way of knowing. Sold it for full price.

This post is so good. . it should be in 3D !!

I'm reblogging you and subscribing to your blog!

Thank you!

Zillow is not 100% accurate, they also disclose that. Zillow can you make you money, I would still refer people to the site as much as possible. If you want to know how much money I made this summer from zillow email me. It's enough to change your mind about not referring people to the site.

This was a well written article and a well deserved feature, congratulations.

Amen to that. When customers bring up an auto-valuation site to me, I ask them to check with the the Better Business Bureau and then also check the companys' own data regarding their accuracy or lack of it. There are several sites out there that try to do this. And no matter how much they try to say they are not appraisers, buyers and sellers believe what they say and it is a constant battle to dissuade them from relying heavily on these sites.

For example, in our area one only rates itself half as good as it does in other areas. I have also heard that most of these rely on tax records, and in some states these are not published. One would think that this would make such computer generated estimates nearly useless. Even in my county, a lot of information is either left off or incorrect. Buyers and sellers are much better served by relying on a good REALTOR and not on a computer-site, in my professional opinion.

What annoys me more is that they use MY pictures MY data that I have entered, MY text descriptions, and use them to generate income for themselve via advertising while they make it harder for me to sell my properties, therefore hurting my sellers and me. Isn't that nice.

I am sure you will get some of them on here to defend themselves. Sorry, hurting others is hard to defend and I for one am not buying into it.

LEESA, It is always nice when our clients are informed but it is frustrating when they are informed with incorrect information!

I have seen some really WAY OFF estimates here as well, Michelle - buyers have even been known to discount a home based on an estimate from there - come to find out it was WAY wrong.

Thanks for the reblog, Mike - it is greatly appreciated.  Zillow is llike bubble gum - snappy and sweet at first and then stale and flavorless after only a short period of time.

I agree, Bob - they will interact with us and I give them that.  Other than that?  Not so much...

Hi Leesa. Excellent post and am glad that it's been featured. Cheers!

Thanks Stewart - I receive quite a few calls from them as well.  Just not interested - did try it once and that's all I needed.

Have fun, Tom!!!  I wish I were a little closer to Southport - I'd come visit.  Unfortunately, it's almost 2 hrs away.

Oh yes, Ellie - there are MANY unique situation where Zillow simply can not compare to a real estate professional.

Zillow is off the mark more than on it.  It's  real problem for buyers and sellers a like.  What about the time Forbes used them as a reference and as a result, claimed that the Denver market -which was doing fine - was in deep trouble?  It's not trvial when the media quotes something as inaccurte as Zillow and touts it as the truth.

Great post!  Amen is about the only thing I had to add. :)

That's fantastic to hear, Patty!  They are lucky they have you as their real estate professional.

Good points and well written. Appreciate that you address your issues without getting into "Zillow bashing". I have my concerns with their estimates and data accuracy, but don't begrudge them the right to operate their business model as they see fit . . . provided that consumers have access to the other side of the story, which you have done a good of presenting. Reblogged.

Real estate is local.... having a company on the internet to tell you how much your house is worth without the knowledge just doesn't quite make sense. This is another hurdle we have to go through to educate the consumer.

It is a fun sight! But that is about it!

It is a fun sight! But that is about it!

It is a fun sight! But that is about it!

When the Zillow guy came to RainCamp, he pointed out that there is a footnote that explains the standard deviation per city for their Zestimates. I was glad he did that because I didn't know it was there and now show it to clients (if I disagree with them) who are standing behind the Zestimate.

there's a fantastic anti Zillow info page about their margin of error.... on Zillow... take that sellers who price their homes based on zillow

A representative from Zillow spoke at RainCamp in New York where it was acknowledged that the information on Zillow is indeed inaccurate ... [if I remember correctly] he said that their calculations are perfect but the DATA they gather from cities and towns is sometimes incorrect - thus making it NOT Zillow's fault that their Zesitimates are often wrong. 

Left me scratching my head wondering did I REALLY hear what I think I just heard??  Why in the world they would knowingly plug in bad data so that they can continue to pump out misinformation?? That's garbage in - garbage out and doesn't make any sense to me at all!  Perhaps I misunderstood?  

I think it lets them think they have bargaining power with US, Barbara Jo!

Super Leesa!!  Love your Blog.  May I reblog?

Mark

The personal touch Ryan is what sets us apart for sure!

i actually have a piece in my listing presentation to counteract the Zillow effect.  Any one can do it.  Find local homes that have sold in your area 3 or 4 years ago.  Find the current Zestimate.  Then cest the Zillow apprectiation/depreciation for that area for the same time frame.  You wont have to go through many properties before you find some that are just so terribly out of whack with reality.

Very well written and explained. So good I am going to re-blog you.

Boy, isn't this the truth!  Those formulas overlook so many factors that come into play in the valuation of a property.

Thank you!  Reblogging.  We constantly have to figh these false value calculators, and Zillow is definitely a popular one.   What it does is make sellers discouraged and buyers think they have more of an advantage than they do (at least in my market) because tax assessments are almost always low.

Thanks so much Harj - I always appreciate you stopping by!

Not everyone reads the fine print though Philip.  That is a substantial difference for your area!

That's awesome Cameron!  Great story and exceptional example!

I love your post Leesa and I as for Zillow I emailed some agents from the website last year some time and never got a return email back. Because of this I never went to Zillow again, can't stand networks like Zillow or "Craigslist" can you say crooked?

VB ;-)

HA! Way too funny Fernando!  Thanks for the reblog.

Perfectly said. I have reblogged this great post.

I have yet to meet a consumer that has read the disclosure, Lane.  And I do not tell people to stay away from the site I just ask that they take the information they derive from it with a grain of salt.  Yes, I am quite familiar with advertising on the site but thanks.

Nothing beats an experienced real estate agent that will give accurate information. Zillow has admitted that their numbers are far from accurate. Our local MLS and the program we use are what matter.

Fabulous post!  I will be reblogging, sugesting and linking back!!  Thank you!

It's sad John but buyers and sellers do take the valuations from this site very seriously.  It is frustrating to see our information on those types of sites when we didn't furnish it ourselves. 

Sellers quoting Zillow remind me of sellers who want to list their house for 20% higher than market value because they heard a rumor that a house in the neighborhood sold for that much. If sellers are hiring an expert they should examine the actual facts. Paul Simon has a lyric somewhere to the effect of "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".

Leesa, Do you suppose Zillow and BankRate.com have the same board of directors?  Both are about as accurate.  I thoroughly enjoy going through each and every lender's posted rates on BankRate.com to explain the "fine print" to consumers.  ARGGGGGGGGGG!  Great post!

Boy did you post on the right subject. They have their place...and I think they really did a lot to move the consumer to the Internet to do their home-work (get it? HOME work :)....lol) and that in turn has given us all the ability to attact the consumer via Internet. I'm grateful for that! But....they need to better explain their stats to the consumer.

Pretty much everybody here have said what I was going to say. So all I am going to say is once again you have written a masterpiece. Congratulations on the featured blog. Oh and I am definitely going to not only re-blog this but send it to a former client of mine who thinks that Zillow is very accurate-Whatever. Great post.

A Zestimate is just a starting point for a consumer, and any agent should be able to easily explain the inaccuracies. Beyond that, they do provide a lot of useful information as you point out. Rather than bashing Zillow, real estate agents should look for ways to work with the tremendous amount of consumer traffic that the site generates.

Excellent response to the "Zillow says my home is worth...." argument, Leesa. 

I think that is the point of the new REALTOR ads that tell the consumer that real estate is local.  You are right that the information is not accurate in most cases, but in my area, I have never had a seller use information from Zillow to justify their price.  They usually are comparing their home to the neighbor's house which is ALSO no comparison!  Great topic and information for your market.

I find it interesting to see the grades the Better Business Bureau gives a lot of these sites. I keep a copy to show my customers when they start spouting data that is incorrect. Personally, I feel that as the listing owners, we should have the option of "opting out" from having our listings grabbed and put on such sites. What amazes me is that large corporations that own the largest franchises, (you know who) automatically syndicate their agents' listings to these inaccurate sites. My boss says it is because the people in the head office have never had to beat the streets to sell homes and convince sellers/buyers why these sites are way off. Someone in an office faraway just said "Gee, this is a great way to get free publicity, without ever asking we agents on the street."

As for "bashing", what do you think is happening when a site says "agent X's valuation is wrong"??? That is bashing the agent and his/her ability as a professional. And if, as a REALTOR, I were to contact YOUR seller and tell him/her that YOUR CMA was a bunch of garbage and way off base, my guess is that YOU would have ME in front of an ethics board so fast my eyes would be spinning. True? You bet true!

Just like we tell our customers, "Be informed consumers". And that applies to us too. Pop any company you like into the space for it on this page and see what come up on the national Better Business Bureau site: http://www.bbb.org/us/Find-Business-Reviews/ Don't worry about address, etc. Just the name of the company you are inquiring about should be enough. Great site for checking up on businesses of all kinds. I keep copies to show customers. It sure does help. Most have a lot of faith in the Better Business Bureau and its reports.

PS When these sites are right (and once in a while they are), just remember "Even a broken clock is right twice a day". The rest of the time, .......... you get the picture.

Good point, Leesa.  Many of the same comments could be made about CMA's on agents' website.  They provide useful ballpark estimates but an agent adds the substance.

The hair goes up on the back of my neck when i get told how right zillow is.

Bravo on the post Leesa....Zillow thinks its an eagle when it is really an egg laying hen.....Give me a live area agent anytime and you will get value, real value..... hands on...get it done everytime......Zippo on Zillow.......

Great post Leesa, I spend too much time having to explain to people how Zillow works and why the Zestimate it way off, so I agree with you 100%.

Since you've got them pegged, could you also get them to stop calling my cell phone to try and get me to buy a zip code/area pro/whatever from them???

Thanks!

AMEN SISTER! HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE PET PEEVE!

I CALL IT KILLOW AND FOOLYA. Now these sites have their place and do some good, however, have they ever walked into a home that is trashed and wonder why they can't get the same price as there Zestimate, I think not! I do a REAL MARKET ANALYSIS! You know, the kind that take time and expertise!

Leesa, This is a great post. It's ironic that just a few hours ago a buyer was telling me about the pricing they saw on Zillow. Buyers are really trying to do their homework but seeing inaccurate information.  I explained that Zillow is not reliable. In addtion to pricing, the school information is often wrong. Unfortunately, many consumers believe it's accurate.  I just emailed your blog post to them.  The timing couldn't be better.

Leesa...

In our area, Zillow estimates are notoriously low. Which, I guess, in today's market makes a seller feel pretty good when I think that we can do better!

Leesa, Great Blog. Reminds me to add a page to my listing book - and give Zillow estimates with pictures and listing info for my local area. Realtor are professionals and so many of the public do not understand all that we do for them to shepherd the transaction through to the close of escrow. Thanks for posting! Steve

Interesting, thanks for the post. I've bookmarked it.

Thanks for the post!

Zillow has been the equivalent of a four letter word for too long. I wish I would never hear that name again. My comps will quickly show them that Zillow is nonsense.

Thanks for posting this.  That is so true and you clearly illustrate the value of an agent in the community and int the know.  Congratulations on the feature and well deserved kudos for this important blog post.

Leesa, I didn't read all of the 95 other comments so far, But at a recent raincamp...A Zillow representative admitted depending on the region and recent sales...they could be off with their zestimates by 25%.

Thanks for the post I just wish the public would listen!

We are in the trenches day in and day out, we see what the buyer or sellers needs are and have a first hand experience to all of the aspects involved with a transaction.  Good luck covering all of that Zillow.

I think they have a disclaimer that states the percentage off they can be in an area which may be hefty. I bring this up when clients mention zillow stats.

I think the zestimates are confusing and misleading.  Consumers go to the web and think everything they read is true!

Hi Leesa, I have clients that want to swear by Zillow. It can be irritating because I have to de-program them. When I show comparables and where the real market is at they slowly come back to reality. I will ask for a reblog because this is a great post.

Amen!  They sure put us in a bad spot and make us sound like shysters when we try to explain to a client who arrives with reams of paper of zillowestimates.  Theses estimates in many cases are way off the board.

You've explained it very well and this is a great re-blog.  Thanks

Sue of Robin and Sue

Leesa well said, I think we have all had to confront the client who things the Zillow data is gospel.

My marketplace need to see this so I too will reblog.

Thank you.

Tallahassee Board of Realtors Magazine for July 2010 has an excellent article titled,  

"An Appraiser's View:  The Zillow Buyer".

Written by Greg Lane, a highly respected State Certified Appraiser who also wears a Realtor Pin. 

Follow the Table of Contents or jump to page 10 of the PDF

 

http://tbrnet.org/uploads/file/Magazines/July2010.pdf

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with this. I remember when Zillow first came out and some Realtors I knew were actually worried that they were be 'jobless'! Computer generated values....huh....

Leesa, the term boots on the ground could make more sense than trusting a national co. who does not get the full picture.

Whoa, am I late to the party.  Sara from Zillow here.  I don't think anyone at Zillow would argue that you are the local expert and the computer system is not. 

A lot of people in the comments referred to the accuracy chart on Zillow where we say how accurate/inaccurate we are, as a helpful tool to them.  I agree, that the chart is perfect to show a buyer or seller our accuracy rates and then transition into your customized data.  Here is a link to it, and you can find a link to it at the bottom of every page.  For example, this chart says we have a median err of 6.8% in Wake County, NC; and we are within 5% of the sales price 40% of the time, within 10% of the sales price 64% of the time and within 20% of the sales price 84% of the time.  This data is available for almost every county in the US.

Another thing you said in your post was that the computer doesn't know about things like the upgraded counter tops or new carpet.  Because this is certainly true, a few months we added the ability for the listing agent to publicly comment on Zestimate on their listings.  You can say the Zestimate is too low, high or just right and right a paragraph why if you'd like.  More info on that here.

Because so many people are coming to Zillow (about 11 million a month) to look at not only Zestimates but all sorts of other real estate information such as mortgage data and listings, it is a great marketing platform for agents.  We do get people there with the 'bells and whistles' as you said, but then our goal is to ultimately get them in a car with a real estate professional.   

Please let me know if I can ever offer you any assistance.  And if it is helpful for your clients to ever hear from a Zillow employee that you should ultimately work with a professional and not use our Zestimates as anything other than a starting point, here is a good video to pass along to them.   

I totally agree with you Leesa.  I looked at their accuracy estimates for Cleveland (and have in the past: 53% of the homes are within 20%.  20%, 20%, 20%

20%, 20%, 20%

 

I think the most uninformed homeowner could probably hit 20% for his/her home with about 5 minutes of research on the net.  I'm not saying they could price it right, but 20%.

 

There are a TON of more variables that Zillow could never hope to account for with any kind of accuracy: I could list probably 50 bullets right here on things that affect value that Zillow could never factor in and relying on user-submitted data will never create accuracy from a statistical perspective for a variety of reasons.

I have yet to find one real estate agent that thinks the Zestimates portion of their website is an accurate reflection for a given home, not one.

That is why their will always be agents and appraisers, amongst other reasons.  That said, I think they have one of the coolest user interfaces and some very good features on their site, but not Zestimates, imho.

Zillow Schmillow.

There's nothing better than a good real estate agent who knows their inventory.

I completely agree with you about Zillow's Zestimates. And I think it was a really stand up thing for Sara to come in and put the record straight as it were. One thing I would love for zillow to do is open their blog to agents. That would be great. They do a bunch of cool stuff for the consumer (pricing just isn't one of them).

Leesa,

We don't have this in Canada. Probably a good thing. I've heard similar comments before.

In my opinion, what Zillow's representatives fail to realize is "Why should any of us have to explain the errors of their site"? Why should we have to go in and add data to modify what they are saying? Either they come up with a way to get the prices exactly right or stop putting them up. Correcting the erroneous information they are using is not my job, nor is Zillow or anyone else paying me to correct it. (Nor did they pay me for the use of my photos, my data I entered, or my text descriptions.) They just copy them to make money off them. They are certainly doing me no favors.

No matter how you cut it, these sites very often make our jobs harder and confuse an awful lot of customers, as is evident by the comments here. They just do not get it since for them it is a money maker. Simple as that. I am very sorry, but with all due respect, in my opinion the hard-working real estates agents' best interests are not the main goals of most these $ite$.

Leesa, I cringed when I heard a mortgage officer mentioning Zillow and home value in the same sentence! The name is out there and the public perception is that it is a real estate sight, so they trust and do not question the errors of their Zestimates. Very frustrating. It shows that there is demand for this type of info, but getting an accurate value is not an easy thing to do.

Hi Leesa,

AMEN!!!  SAY ON!!!  My 5 year old granddaughter probably knows as much about the market conditions and pricing as Zillow, and I wouldn't consult her on setting a listing price either.  You are dead on about not knowing the property conditions when you are getting information second hand. 

In 1984, I knew an appraiser who lost his credentials and livlihood because he "trusted" a developer to bring him photos, tax records, etc. on some condos in a resort area about 200 miles away.  What he didn't know was the developer was in cahoots with two others, and they purchased the condos from one of the others for cash then sold them at inflated prices to the third person.  They took those inflated sales and jacked the prices on additional properties.  Zillow would not likely have known that, but a prudent investor caught it on quality control check.

It is amazing: they actually policed fraud without President Obama putting a Czar over housing, and experienced appraisers weeded out the fraud--no pool appraiser required.  Oh, for the good ole days.

With your permission, I would like to re-blog this-so many people think Zillow was on Mt. Sinai with Moses, and we need to be sure they know the voice they hear is not coming from a Cloud...

Appreciate your organization of these thoughts.

This is so true.  Definitely re-blogging this.

Leesa-

You are so right. Zillow zestimates are wild-eyed computer guesstimates masquerading as statistical data. 

I think the name Zestimates was really more of a Freudian slip than a fun, intentional corporate play on words.

What a timely post. I just ran across this a few days ago. Boy do they need to read more blogs online like yours!

Sara from Zillow - thanks so much for stopping by and adding to the comments!  I do understand that there is a Disclaimer on the site but I can not recount one buyer or seller that has ever read it.  I am also familiar with Caveat Emptor which pretty much is a CYA when it comes to things of this nature.  As for your accuracy statistics that you mentioned:

"A lot of people in the comments referred to the accuracy chart on Zillow where we say how accurate/inaccurate we are, as a helpful tool to them.  I agree, that the chart is perfect to show a buyer or seller our accuracy rates and then transition into your customized data.  Here is a link to it, and you can find a link to it at the bottom of every page.  For example, this chart says we have a median err of 6.8% in Wake County, NC; and we are within 5% of the sales price 40% of the time, within 10% of the sales price 64% of the time and within 20% of the sales price 84% of the time.  This data is available for almost every county in the US."

When you are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars and you put into perspective a median err of 6.8% - that's HUGE!  We're not talking small change. 

Don't get me wrong - Zillow is a novel site!  People will always clamer to sites such as Zillow because they think it gives them power - Zillow will be around for a long time.  However, I have to agree with John above that it isn't up to me to correct information on another site - it should be up to the site where the information is displayed to correct it or to have it right in the first place.  Inaccurate information is inaccurate information and in many other mediums or other situations it would be fodder for a lawsuit given the public nature of the site.

 

What I do not understand is why Zillow thinks it's helpful to provide those Zestimates? It hasn't been hard for me to convince that Zillow is highly inaccurate when I discuss home values with Sellers, and Sellers turned buyers. It's those Buyers only that finds it difficult to ignore those Zestimates.

Alot of education is needed.

So true Leesa. Once browsing through Zillow, I decided to look at an area where we were going to get a listing. The house across the street was much smaller, had no updates, the location backed a main road, there was absolutely no curb appeal, and the house was being sold "as is", but Zillow had it priced $100,000 above the REAL market value of all the other homes in the area!

Zillow is NOT a real estate site.  It is an advertising site, making money off clicks and eyeballs and ad sales.

Zillow has no standards or ethics to support within the real estate community, as any practicing firm or licensee does.

IF the obscure disclaimer was presented at the top of every page, in red, it would garner Zillow a little more leeway from those of us who have to deal with the disruption caused by knowlingly misleading consumers for profit.

But what we must ALL realize is that Zillow has SUCCEEDED in entrenching itself in the minds of many consumers ! Buyers and Sellers I'm talking to about a specific property have already viewed the Zestimate !

You seem to have touched a nerve here. I always check Zillow when I am determining list price. While I expect it to be inaccurate, I also know that my seller or buyer has probably looked at it and has that number in their mind, so I better know what I am working with when I go in there. Ultimately, Zillow is a computer program, if it is fed exact comps it will know what the house is worth, but as we all know there are very few times when we have an "exact comp" and in that case it takes a human judgment.

OK, let's put Zillows numbers into perspective that sellers can understand.  On a 200,000 average home they can be OFF on the price 6.8% or $13,600.  Show me a seller that thinks that is OK?  Even a buyer would have to scratch their heads and say 'wow' to that number. 

We (as Realtors) wouldn't have a job being off that much so why can Zillow do it?  Oh, that's right, they don't have to be correct because they have a disclaimer!  My mistake, that makes it totally OK to be off that $13,600.

Silly me, trying to get the seller the market value of their home! Let's just wing it & forget about the closed sales in the area that appraisers use.

 

NO way I read all the comments here. All very true, but Zillow does say, to use a local expert on their site, so I would just point it out to them.

Good morning Leesa,

This is a fabulous post! All very true but as Missy says Zillow does direct you to use a local expert and I do point that out to clients.

Unfortunately, many consumers are assuming the information found on Zillow is accurate, despite notices posted to the contrary. I always thought that Zillow's main existence was to generate leads. Thanks for the post, and kudos to Sara at Zillow for her response. There is great information in this post that I want my readers to understand about Zillow so like many before me, I will re-blog.

Leesa - YES! Thanks for posting this and continuing to clear the air about Zillow. I can't tell you how much energy is required to counter the bad information they push out to the community.

Reblogging to spread the word to others!! Def. agree Zillow is a fun website but when it is comes to serious business nothing beats personal touch.

Wow, Lisa, I try and take a day off and look what I missed!  I started reading through all your comments and thought provoking threads which are excellent BTW, but one thing I would like to inject if I may;  it's not just Zillow, it's all online 3rd party sites...  from listing sites to estimates ~ we've just got to educate our buyers and sellers that all of these sites have as you say, pretty bells and whistles but where's the beef?  

Case in point: I had an over seas serviceman contact me THIS WEEK about a home he found on one of these sites and was so interested in it he was making arrangements for his parents to come to Raleigh to view the home for him...  Problem is that home sold last year!!!!!  

That to me is sad.  We as REALTORS have rules and regulations to follow as to not mislead the public - why don't some of these other sites?

Excellent post and well worthy of all the reblogs and feature!

Great Post!

We have the same problem with BankRate.com. The reality it is- they sell leads like Lending tree. They had a class action suit about deceptive adverting a while back, because they low balled the rates to get people to fill out their form. It' hard to get people to understand that they are a lead site.

Good Post. These days I will check it before a listing appt or during the duration of a listing to see what buyers may be seeing. I have it emailing me as to my own home value to get additional insight into consumers available information. No it's not the same as you and me but can help us overall with insight into consumer information.

"Yes, Ms. prospective client, there is a great deal of wonderful information on the Internet, and on Zillow and other sites.  However, I am sure that you understand, that unaudited free information that flies around on line is not audited and is more often inaccurate than not, so it is still important to have a qualified professional to assist you in differentiating fact from fiction: that is where I come in."

This is easily dealt with if you know how: the problem is the real objection, in this case a matter of client naivete, does not ever come out unless you dig for it: the salesperson who suffers from this mistake is not the one who gets the client to articulate it so that it can then be handled; it is the salesperson who does not like to put people on the spot and therefore never knows why they missed the sale.

Great article!  If I hear the word Zestimates one more time, I think I'll choke!

I don't think that most of the people that use Zillow have noticed in the very fine print that Zillow states that they have a + or - 10% price in their estimates.  That is a HUGE discrepancy!  Just look at the homes surrounding your listing and then your listing, sometimes hundreds of thousands in difference.

I had one potential client want me to take him back to the computers so he could show me how he uses Zillow to place his offers, and thereofore places offers 10-15% below the list price.  You notice I said "potential client"?  That procedure ended me wanting to work with him.  He did not want to believe the information I was pulling up for him, to show the true current comps, the true selling prices, he wanted to believe Zillow.  Yes, Zillow does have a disclaimer to use a local expert, which I am, but this client wanted to belive Zillow, not the local expert.

I had a short sale where the negotiator used Zillow as a way to determine value. Really. The negotiator did not care about the MLS stats, MLS comps, title company comps, just kept saying "Zillow Says...". Had to duke it at appraisal time, and it all worked out. But really, you are a bank trusting a website more than a human????

I have sellers who quoted Zillow to me for more than six months while their house sat unsold because it was way overpriced.  In fairness, we didn't have any good comps for a house in original condition in their specific part of the neighborhood.

During one of our conversations with them complaining about the agent feedback that the house was overpriced, I said to them that Zillow had never been inside their house and Zillow had never taken buyers through their house and listened to the buyers comments.  You might want to add that point to your post.

Nice reminder. I reblogged.

We are in a rural area and I can tell you the numbers zillow quotes are way off.

Amen to this post!!!I also cringe, especially for my area, the square footages are off on every single home because they did not include our second levels of our homes in the mountains.  My home alone is off by 1100 square feet. 

Excellent post!  So far, it's been reblogged 44 times.  Wow, that is quite a vote of confidence and a huge compliment.  Way to go.

Excellent post!  So far, it's been reblogged 44 times.  Wow, that is quite a vote of confidence and a huge compliment.  Way to go.

Wish Zillow was correct....had a home which I sold, after a long time on the market too, that Zillow said had a market value of $389,000......it was marketed for $239,000 and finally sold for $222,000. They were slightly off....WAAAAY OFF. They should just go away, cause more problems for consumers than they help.

Wow - there are way too many comments for me to try and catch up on so....

THANKS to all of you that have taken the time to chime in and offer up your thoughts!  I think it has been established that Zillow does have a disclaimer - however, my point to that is I don't know of one consumer that has read that disclaimer.  We all know buyers and sellers that would never get that far.

Another point I would like to add is that this post was for consumers in my area - it's great to see all of these comments for them to read.  This post was not a rant against Zillow as I have mentioned that Zillow will be around for a LONG time and they do provide a fun and interactive site for consumers - just not an accurate one.

Thank you all SO MUCH!

Leesa - thank you for the excellent presentation of what Zillow is good for - and what it's NOT good for. I will re-blog, please and thank you!

I've never seen so many re-blogs as this one has generated. For a minute I thought the whole AR site was on a Zillow tirade. You must have poked a really, really sensitive nerve with this post. I prefer to treat Zillow as a chance to educate the clients who come in with their Zestimates. Zillow has some interesting methodologies and I respect their efforts, but they will never be as accurate as a local real estate professional.

Leesa, you're so right on with this one.  I hope you don't mind a re-blog.

I have printed off come of the comments on their site and use that in my listing presentation here in Boise, Idaho.  I also pull statistics to show it isn't just my "opinion".

I am bookmarking this post. This will be a great way to show potential clients the inaccuracies in their zestimate. Between your post and all of the information contained in the comments sending out this post will go a long way towards showing people who the experts really are and why, thank you.

Zillow does not know squat!  Zillow cannot answer the follow items:
Zillow cannot smell cat urine
Zillow cannot tell if there is an unpermitted addition
Zillow does not know what the countertops are made of
Zillow cannot tell if there is fresh paint
Zillow is unaware if there is a new roof on the house
ETC.

But, i do enjoy Zillow, and I check it out to see what a potential buyer will see, or a potential seller, as I figure they will probably look there as well...
I use Zillow as just another tool.  What I find odd is that every seller thinks it is too low and every buyer thinks the Zestimate is too high--go figure!

Oh so true and it makes our job much more difficult. It takes an area not a community into cosideration. Actve adult golf course community in no way compare to family community with no ammenities. I get calls weekly from people asking why the value shows this and I have told them the actual for the property with upgrades etc.

Zillow's numbers are a starting point, just like my Top Producer Market Snapshot is a starting point.  However, any property valuation requires a personal visit to compare the features, condition, location and current political/economic climate with those of properties sold in the past.  I usually ask people not to share their zestimate or other online estimate with me until AFTER we review the market value analysis I prepare.  When we do that, consumers are prepared to accept my estimate over Zillow's which is never even close.  Never!

Leesa -- you hit the ball way out of the park -- not left field.  It's a home run!!  And @110 why should Realtors(r) update your site?  Most of the information Zillow and other IDX webs have done was take our work product, and streamed it into their own.  Thanks to the DOJ forcing MLS' across the nation to give up their propritory historical information.  The addition that allows agents to update Zillow is just another attempt for Zillow to try to become the national MLS ... don't drink the kool-aid.  Stay local!!  Keep it local!! 

Great post. I have been preaching the same thing. Zillow does more harm than good.

Excellent post.  Zillow ought to be forced to link it with a disclosure from any result they provide.

I cancelled my subscription years ago to Money Magazine because they had so many articles praising Zillow and constantly quoting the CEO. I figure any business magazine that claims Zillow is an accurate tool in the real estate industry must not be giving very good advice in other areas. (That said, I wish I had Zillow's PR prowess--to get so much positive press for such a lame product is amazing.)

I didn't see this one until Jill Watts re-blogged. 

Forgive me if I'm saying what has been said before (I didn't read all of the 100+ comments before mine), but..."Amen, sister!"

I didn't see this one until Jill Watts re-blogged. 

Forgive me if I'm saying what has been said before (I didn't read all of the 100+ comments before mine), but..."Amen, sister!"

Congrats Leesa on a great post. While I love the @zillow crowd, it is hard to convince the buyer and or seller that just because they show a value of X that it really is worth Y. Have a great weekend.

Lisa aka @allstarmom3

Leesa, You a big AMEN for this one! Not to knock Zillow or anything, but they are WAY off the mark far more often than they are correct! Now, if you're comparing condos, and there are recent comps in the same complex, that's one thing, but if you're looking at a SFR, not the same at all!! I had a listing for a completely remodeled, 3000 sf, never lived in, single story ranch home in Yorba Linda, california. It had nearly a half acre property (not easy to find in California), zoned for 2 horses, with absolute privacy, pool, spa & a view. One of my "online educated" potential buyers informed me that the house was overpriced by at least $500K according to Zillow. After lowering my blood pressure and questioning him a bit I realized that Zillow was using the zero lot line, 5,000 sf lot homes across the way, as comparables! Needless to say, I gave him a bit of insight as to why he shouldn't be using this method to compare these types of properties. We agreed to disagree in the end, and I sold the home to a more savvy buyer who understood the true value of the home- oh well! Thanks for the awesome post!

What kind of amazes me is that when companies like this one see so many concerns expressed, instead of saying "Gosh, these are real estate professionals that could help make us a lot more money except they have some issues they would like us to take care of" they say "Here is how we are doing things whether you like it or not! You take the time to explain to your poor customers why we have data that is imperfect on our sites". With 161 comments so far, and all but Zillow's one being truly positive, you would think they would get the picture. But they prefer to get defensive instead of seeing reality.

If we as REALTORS said to our customers "Yes, you told me you wanted a 3 bedroom/2 bath home in the country, but by gosh I am going to show you condos in the center of the city, and you had better buy one cause I am not going to change the way I do business." How long would you or I be in business? Or for that matter, most other businesses that have to compete for customers? Not long! A business model that ignores customer complaints or is arrogant, in my experience, seldom works as well as it could.

And we all know that just sheer numbers of visitors to an site does not necessarily mean all that much in the long run. For goodness sake, I check Zillow to make sure that my listings are not on it. So I am one of those 11 million, or whatever. But that does not make me a fan.

Leesa, your rant has gotten a lot of attention and obviously touched a nerve. A Zestimate can be a tool for a seller that has high expectations for their property, but should be used properly. Worthy of another re-blog for my area as well.

Thanks for the post Leesa.  I speak to so many sellers that looked up the property value on Zillow and have come up with a sales price that is unrealistically high.  I don't mind educating them on why there home is worth what it is worth, but I usually feel like they think I am just trying to price it really low so that it will sell super fast even after showing them actual comparable properties. 

So right, I also have to spend "zillions" of my time debunking the "zestimate" of list price or purchase price that so many clients have cleverly "researched". The same, by the way, is true of tax assessments!

And if I can figure out how to re-blog, I will!

Here is a scary thought. Out of the area appraisers are also using Zillow as a starting point. Think they read the disclaimer??? HUH!

and ps...I just looked them up on the BBB, guess what their business type is? Real estate appraisers...

As if the market wasn't bad enough, in comes the buyer who thinks they are the experts and they have Zillow to prove them right!!! (Has anyone seen Zillow's disclosure about how they are right 5% of the time in certain areas.) The internet is a wonderful tool if used properly, but can be the kiss of death to many deals if uses and interpreted incorrectly. I have lost deals to Zillow, now I set my buyers straight at our first appointment about the does and do nots of internet real estate sites.

 

 

Zillow is just one on-line tool.  I agree most consumers do not read the disclaimers and that makes our jobs more challenging,

Gotta reblog this one.  Great info for my market.  So many sellers (and buyers and buyers agents)  come to me with Zillow info that is just plain wrong.

I was just telling someone this just this afternoon. After someone - not real estate related - recommended ZEE- AYE - ELL- ELL - OH..with a very silent "w"!

Leesa,

I gotta ask, hoping it is not a state secret:

How many reblogs have you received on this post?

Seems like a powerful amount of agreement, and that you touched a collective nerve!

I have no idea Mike - only 20 show up as that is all I am allowed to receive credit for.  Someone else came on here and had said 44 but that was a while ago.  The post certainly took on a life of its own - that's for sure.

Teresa - FOR REAL?

"and ps...I just looked them up on the BBB, guess what their business type is? Real estate appraisers..."

Great job, great post!  I have a listing going up in Wakefield and the market is tough in your area.  

Great job, great post!  I have a listing going up in Wakefield and the market is tough in your area.  

Outstanding blog... thanks LEESA....

Zillow drives me nuts...if for no other reason than their advertising costs and contract periods are ridiculous!  I mean seriously, you want me to sign a one year contract with you when I have no proof that you actually generate any leads or closed deals?  Just ridiculous!

Leesa there are so many people out there who think Zillow is the end all, and they think they're experts because they use Zillow

As many others have said, Zillow's zestimates can drive us to distraction from time to time. I just got a notification from Zillow that my own home's zestimate just went up $29,000.  This is because ONE house in an upscale subdivision of new homes just closed.  Zillow doesn't take into account the fact that a 2400 sq.ft. home, new construction on a culdesac street really has NOTHING to do with the 1400 sq.ft. house built in 1936 on a well travelled road nearly 1/2 mile away.  Of course my fellow professionals, you all know this, but the public in general has NO IDEA why their homes "zestimate" climbs and falls....

I think the agent has an opportunity here to advise the client on where Zillow has its place, as well as all the other data and market conditions, property specifics, and other factors involved that conrtibute to assessing a home's value. Zillow is a great tool, but it's one of several, and not to be taken as the end all to determining a listing price or in making an offer. A good agent can impart this to their client without demonizing Zillow, or suggesting the client is wrong for using Zillow.

I blogged recently about the intangibles of hyper-localism, and how these intangibles can factor into the list price, and yet are extremely difficult to measure. The solution is, of course, an agent who knows the local market inside and out. http://activerain.com/blogs/rich_bailey

Zillow's algorithms will continue to improve; they are already leveraging 3rd party analytics from companies like WalkScore. But at the end of the day, it's just looking at data. Only an agent can add the personal touch, can assess the emotional utility that comes from being part of a community and understanding all that community brings to the table.

Great post.  Zillow does provide information that wasn't available otherwise to a consumer, but obviously is not the end-all authority.  It's tough to sell this, though, as a lot of customers have the 'I saw it on the internet so it must be true' mentality.

Hey Leeza - (#121) Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that we rely on the agents to correct data.  Of course we have many people who think about how this can be done every day.  One the things we need to do is keep looking at how we can get more data flowing into the site (see comment #183).  And we've definitely made a lot of enhancements and improvements in the 5 years the site has been around.  But at the end of the data is just data.  It isn't a human.  So I look at the opportunity to come in and comment as adding a human touch to the data - so more of a marketing function. 

For example, commenting on a Zestimate increases the contributions you have on the site, which increases the likelihood that you show up higher in searches and in other areas of the site - as someone who is active in a local area.  It is just another avenue for positioning yourself as a local expert online.  That way when people want to talk to an expert - there you are.

John sums it up well in comment #80 and on his response post here. 

Thanks again, Sarah for stopping by.  Nice to keep the people informed. 

Picked up a new buyer a couple of weeks ago.  Young engineer, very analytical.  He habitually uses Zillow for his research, but he's starting to realize Zillow's not the best source for information.  I am!

I'm really late to this one as I've had a beef with Zillow since its inception - has always been way off in my area.  I'm glad to see such a well received recent post on this as there have been many over the years.  For any that have to debate a Zestimate with a buyer or seller, it's nice having an updated "opinion piece" such as this to reinforce our battles.

Leesa - ThankfullyI've only had one or two clients over the years bring up zillow.com and "their" numbers. 

Well put...I re-blogged but I'm not sure where to find the 'suggest' button...thanks.

Definitely well said, I always tell my clients that the real estate agent is the one to talk to about price, most of the ones I know do a great job of evaluating everything involved in the process of pricing...

Agreed...applause...Zillow is advertising...not real estate....not real at all....It is like the "fear" that real estate agents will disappear and suddenly everyone will submit offers over the internet without ever having seen the property live and in person....we have had that happen a time or two....thankfully not the norm...and neither is Zillow...thankfully.

FIVE STARS!  This is EXCELLENT! 

I've had several sellers tell me they wouldn't reduce the price on their home because the home's value just went UP by $15,000 on Zillow.  Ahhhh!

I would also have to add... Zillow may compare two different 3 bed / 2 bath homes, but Zillow has no idea that one home is on a busy road next to railroad tracks and the other 3/2 is in a quiet cul de sac in the rear of a subdivision. 

Apples to oranges.  :-)

Fortunately I haven't had a Zillow encounter such as I've been reading above. They have contacted me to engage in their service, but something just didn't feel right. I guess I must have been confused with what numbers they delivered in comparison with the numbers I gathered. Great heads-up post!

Well said! Reblogging :-) Thanks for sharing.

Very well stated! A great post, I will be reblogging...Thanks!

Impressive, Leesa.  This has to be the most reblogged post in AR's history!

Leesa,

What a post... it really hit a nerve with a lot of us.

Great Job.

It needed to be said and you said it well.

Leesa:  Fantastic blog.  Great points.  I agree with Jason this info is too good not to share.  Thanks - Carrie

Thanks again, everyone, for your continued comments - they are greatly appreciated!  There have been quite a few different view points on this post and that is EXACTLY what Active Rain is all about!  Great to see the interaction.

Leesa - oh how true yet today we find realestate salespeople using the statistically contrived assessment values to argue in favour of their offer or listing price. 

LOL actually it's not very funny at all, it's is sad that they use information without understanding how it is actually calculated or realizing the potential for errors in the end results

It takes a local real estate expert to know, understand, and communicate the nuances of the local real estate market. Statistics can have an impact but they are only part of the equation.

Darrell Walters, Newnan Mortgage

Interesting, Barrie and I never thought of that but you are RIGHT!  There are agents that use it to bolster their offers - ggrrr!

Lessa - I reblogged your post as it ties in with a series I have on assessment

Totally agree, Darrell!  There is way more to it than numbers from a computer program.

Thanks so much, Barrie - I'll have to check out the series!

Zillow has information on their site on just how inaccurate their information may be.  I believe in our area it's a bit over 10% + or -.  Basically that's over 20% discrepancy.  Definitely not the best information available.

Yes, Christine - they do have disclaimers but how many times do people read the fine print - we all know they should.....but....

Excellent post. I understand the attraction to Zillow. I also understand people will trust a compute program more than a salesman, but the info is mostly inaccurate.

Garrigus Real Estate - even consumers that understand we are professionals in the Real Estate field look to these 3rd party sites first.

Thanks for the post and the great comments. This is good stuff and exactley why I dislike Zillow.

It is frustrating, Wayne, that's for sure!

Here is what I know.....

I attended for about ten minutes the first Zillow University class.  And, I am still of the opinion, that although I like Brad, they are still a bunch of fools not getting it. 

If you want people to attend and come back, rehearse, rehearse, and rehearse until you get it right.  Don't waste our time. 

I was looking for some good information, and those Zestimates are zero, as many people have attested to. 

Thanks, Leesa, for giving me an opportunity to vent.  Active Rain doesn't like it when we dis Zillow because they are a sponsor. 

HAHAHA!  You are more than welcome, Suzanne.  Try as I might I just can not bring myself to understand the Zillow draw.

Here is a small sample of zillows group which is allowed to cyber bully inside of zillows pertection.

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/I-didn't-state-that-someone-else-couldn't-spell-I-stated-that/366053/

Here is a small sample of zillows group which is allowed to cyber bully inside of zillows pertection.

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/I-didn't-state-that-someone-else-couldn't-spell-I-stated-that/366053/

Zillow allows special standards to a few users, it has created a big problem. I feel there needs to be more discussion about allowed group behavior with special standards that are able to bully and alienate users not wanted.

Jon Kolsky was banned from Zillow. His ActiveRain blog and his rants on Trulia are a clear representation of his personal opinion. They include his admission to being IP banned by a top 5 RE site, his admission of calling no less than 3 female agents at home to harass them and his admission of his own limited point of view with admissions of his own abuse of fellow agents. Not professional, not good.

A word to the wise, there are other agents so it's best to steer clear of any who are not stable whether you are a client or a fellow professional. There are too many good ones out there to waste the time on those that are questionable.

I have no idea what any of the above (Comments 216-219) are about.  I don't delete comments though - should these be deleted?

I don't know Connie Bellows and Connie does not know me, Connie does not know what she talks about, I had to sue Zillow, I was not band I left zillow because of unethical behavior. All I try to do is expose zillow for what they are. But thanks Connie Bellows.

 

Jon Kolsky 

jonkolsky.imxagent.com 

O  760 689 2659

F   562 439 0511

C   562 225 2295  

5320 E Second Street #8 Long Beach, Ca 90803 DRE# 01311273

 

 

Perhaps you may wish to congradulate Jon on HIS finee Blog which is word for word exactly like yours..

http://dabd38a.activerain.com/post/2222717/what-you-should-know-about-zillow

Is this one of those Great minds think alike or Plagerism?

 

You're welcome

 

 

Maybe Pretty Please will work,,,,another place Jon posted your Blog

http://4realestate2.blogspot.com/

Agents seem to be pretty lackadaisical about Stealing Content...

Bob I'm sure you are cool with this type of stuff that happens in zillow.

 

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Why-are-some-agents-dig-up-zombie-threads-instead-of-helping-live-people/364725/

I am closing this post from further comments.  Jon - I am asking nicely that you remove MY post from all of the sites that you have subsequently posted it.  Not once have you made any reference to who the original article was written by, you didn't ask my permission and the only change I saw on the AR post was the ommission of one sentence.  Sorry - that does NOT then constitute an ORIGINAL post.  I will be visiting all of the sites one by one where I have found my post and soliciting help from site owners to have these posts removed.