Life In Wake Forest NC.....

Oh so very true!   We have many rules to follow in advertising!!!

Leesa - well written!   So many sellers and buyers don't get the basics of fair housing.  I think the family thing can be overblown, as in, you can't say "Family Room" when that is a common room type, even listed as an option in our MLS.  That said, this blog so clearly illustrates what we can and cannot say and why.  And boy do I see these things violated all the time!   I suggested this for a feature.

Lessa-I"ve suggested this for a feature.  I'm amazed at the number of times I see violations in adverstising with references to "in the best school district" or as you point out "family friendly" neighborhood.  Ouch.

Hi there, Deborah!  There is quite a bit for us to keep up with and the Fair Housing Act is NOT one to dismiss!

Thanks so much, Coral!  I have had some sellers VERY upset with me because I wouldn't advertise their home the way they thought it should be advertised.  Unfortunately, it ALL violated the Federal Fair Housing act!

Leesa...

I use this test: "The inclusion of some against the exclusion of others." That makes it pretty easy.

Featured in the Group "Whacked!!!"

The "best school district" is a good one, Cindy and you're right!  I see violations EVERY day!

It will never cease to amaze me how many violations there are with respect to the Federal Fair Housing laws. 

In this case, Real Estate is not local it's national. 

Great post Leesa.

Leesa - Our local MLS actually has some sort of filter that doesn't allow us to use certain words in the description.  I found this out when I was trying to type "french doors."

Leesa, I also clicked the "feature" button on this exceptionally well done explanation. Reblogging.

Leesa,

Good stuff.  I see SO many TMLS listings and flyer ads that promote "Great Family Home," "Great family neighborhood," or "Family Friendly Home," it makes my head spin.

Just the other day a client asked me about the crime rate in a certain neighborhood.  I gave him a number of sources he could check for information but explained that I could not provide that information or even offer an opinion.  Truthfully, I am happy to have these filters, it keeps the focus on the property.

MB

Leesa, it's just amazing some of the stuff we can't say.  While I think the intent of this law is very good, I also think there are some First Amendment issues here.  "Cept I'm not planning to be the test case!

Great post!

Well said and thanks for the reminder.

I shared this with all my agents.  Thanks!

I had no idea, but then I am just a stager and want to put the property in showcase condition so you can talk about that.  Thanks for information, I better check some of my titles etc. to see if I broke any laws? 

I also see a lot of home advertised in the MLS as "perfect for students"  or great for couples.  I do believe those terms indicate a familial status also. 

Great post, congrats on the feature.

Thank you for the reminders. We need that every day.

Great reminder to all of us, Leesa!  Thanks for this post!

I do my best to follow all fair housing laws but I think they have gone too far. Why is it OK to say across the street from shopping malls but not OK to say across the street from the church? If it is a fact that whatever you say is across the street is across the street. After all it is a fact. I can see it would and should be a violation if you said this house can only be sold to someone who wants to go to church across the street or for that matter this house can only be sold to people who are going to shop across the street.

Thanks for the blog.  Timely reminder to all. 

Good post, as attitudes change in the U.S. I can see the fair housing rules only getting stricter.  We always need to keep up on this to protect our selves, our agents and our clients.

Great reminder!

Hmmm....I just read a blog post that would need to see this...hmm...

Leesa ~ Great reminder for all of us and very well written post for the public.  Congrats on your feature!

NO kidding. That's why we are held to higher standards whether we know it or not

Political correctness will never cause me to be silent or cause me to tell anything but the truth. I will never discriminate based on the protected categories. I will never refuse to help a buyer or seller. I will not act in a manner to attract one group over another. I have told people to leave a home I was showing due to racist remarks.

I will mention positive information about schools, families, crime rates, or any other factual information that would be beneficial information to a buyer. If a house has a pool, a jungle gym, a swingset, a slide - well that is a great family home and I will say so. I am competent to answer questions about crime - so I do. Some agents just use this as an excuse to not do research and not know the areas they serve. You are not just selling a rectangle of dirt - you are selling a state, a city, a community - if you do not know what that is or are afraid to talk about it - you are not serving your customer.

If the federal gov't wants to come after me with all the problems we face as a nation, so be it. A kind heart and common sense will prevail. If it does not then the problem is the law - not me.

Good reminder - thanks.

I'm not sure where you get your interpretations of the act.. but being in advertising I have to stay up with what's allowed by law. We are a family friendly business. Family is the backbone of any society. So with that said, here are accceptable things to say about familys in advertisements... Famiies welcome, great for families.... not acceptable would be NO families. Basic rule of thumb is to keep the ad describing the home, not potential buyers. A home with 5 bedrooms is great for a large family and there is nothing wrong with saying that. 

The problem in my side of the real estate business is these things are moving targets. I have to check and recheck the lists from time to time as people question what can and can not be printed within the law.

"Feature" for sure!! Great blog!

I support and agree with our Fair Housing rules.  Sometimes I get a little confused on what is and is not acceptable.

Is Master Suite, okay or does the word, "MASTER", promote slavery?  Are walk-in closets okay for someone who is wheel chair bound?  There are others, but like you and other agents I try to focus on the benefits of the features of a home.  Joy

Hi Leesa,

In California there are 5 additional protected classes: sexual orientation, marital status, ancestry, source of income, and age.

Leesa, You can do a lot with photos in your listing. A backyard shot of the elaborate playground equipment, or a photo of the church as seen from your front porch, or a photo of the bus stop sign in front of your home can make statements about a specific property. A localism post about the schools, hospitals, houses of worship and a link to this listing would be the way to go.

Margaret

Fascinating discussion but I liked your historic video best of all ...

I have heard  that "master" bedroom is a term that is being evaluated. Any info?

Margaret

Well said Leesa, I'm happy to say that here in the Triangle we do see/read some violations but for the most part (thankfully) the law if followed!  It's important to remember too that the law also says: It is unlawful to discriminate in any aspect of selling or renting housing or to deny a dwelling to a buyer or renter because of the disability of that individual, an individual associated with the buyer or renter, or an individual who intends to live in the residence.  So not just against the person doing the buying OR renting but anyone associated with them too!

Well deserved feature indeed!!!

We once had an attorney come to an office meeting for this subject. We were all shown pictures of a home and asked to describe it. Then the attorney reviewed our comments for violations...very interesting. "Family Kitchen" was a violation. I now use the term "Country Kitchen" ugh

For those of us who know all the no-nos it's frustrating to see other agents who are ignorant of the laws' practical application blithely violating them all the time. As long as the MLS is not enforcing them, they will keep doing it. There is one agent who keeps using the term "executive home". I can only guess that this persists because nobody at MLS enforcement takes up the issue.

I'm beginning to believe there must be different standards in different states. Executive is not an offensive term here in PA... excepting how it's used. No executives, or For Executives is not advised although falling in the gray area. However as I previously stated, Executive home is perfectly within guidelines here. You are describing a home, not a person. The law is meant to protect people not their feelings. Who is hurt by describing a home as an executive home?

Ummmmmm - why can't it be said that it is near public transportation or that a free gym membership is included?  Or for that matter, that it is located in the financial district?

What would these aspects have to do with race or color, national origin, religion, sex, familiar status, or handicap/disability?

I even question not mentioning "professional" - is that a protected class?  Maybe in some states/areas it would be.  I think I read somewhere that lawyers are a protected class somewhere.

I would mention all the ammenities and then let potential buyers buyers figure out if it would work for them.

Otherwise, your point is well taken.  There are so many things we can't mention.  Which is really fine until it gets nit-picky - like "Master Suite"  Maybe it should be changed to "Main Bedroom Suite?"  LOL  We could get nuts and say "Master/Mistress. Master/Master, Mistress/Mistress" but then that would be discriminating against singles.  ;-)  And it would use up too many characters. 

Well written and right on target!  I remember a potential client wanting to target hispanics as the potential buyer market as "that's who live in the neighborhood".  No, I said, we market to ALL prospective Buyers.  I think I posted about it - will see if I can find it.

Found it - posted back in 2007:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/45712/fair-housing-beware-of-testers-

Great way to explain it to Mr Seller who lives next to that church or synagogue.

What a pathetic commentary on our collective cowardice.  Being from Massachusetts we, of course, protect more 'classes' of people, conditions and diseases.  Obeying an absurd interpretation of a one time meaningful law is necessary to protect our lives from the power of the Mama state - but do we have to pretend it makes sense, or is right, or benefits anyone? 

This blog has provoked the outpouring of some plain common sense. Hooray!

I am old; so I guess that, in California I could go crazy and claim that anything in the house that had an appeal chiefly to the younger buying public .... exercise room, tennis court, hot-tub ... would offend me if mentioned. Hey, I'm not THAT nutty and would not insult the rest of the buying public by feeling a need to deprive my own sellers of appropriately informative advertizing on such grounds. 

The truth is, it is just not possible to make a rule to cover every possible subdivision of every possible situation. Human creativity is not supposed to be wasted on such exercises; but more on sensible comprehension of factual information.

Thanks, Richard!  I appreciate the feature!  I love the self test that you use - makes perfect sense!

Thanks, Craig - it never ceases to amaze me the violations in the local MLS!

That's interesting about the filter your MLS has, Michelle!  I'm guessing "french" could imply - well, I don't know - what could it imply?

Thanks, Mary Kay - I greatly appreciate it!

Leesa, I also make this case to my landlords, who essentially ask the same questions, and want me to only show the place to people without kids...or married couples ...or what ever, Hey, Mr. Landlord I can't do that!!

Me, too, mike!!!  I cringe everytime I see it.  For a while I thought I had missed an amendment allowing us to say it!

That's awesome, Michael and i do the same thing.  Those are items that are best left (IMO required) for the buyer to find out for themselves.  I'll provide the tools but I won't provide an opinion.

HAHAHAHA!  Me neither, Pat!  I love my job way too much for that!

Thanks, Teresa and thanks so much for stopping by!

You're more than welcome, Jim!

That totally rocks, Jeff!  I am glad that I could provide something of benefit to your agents!  Have an awesome week!

Check it out, Carole - it does apply to everyone. 

Thanks, linda and yes, those terms would be discriminatory.

You are most welcome, Ellen!

Many sellers try to get a little too involved in the process. That is why they hired us, right? I like input, but they need to understand that perhaps we know better what feature of the home and the neighborhood will sell the home and which will not. And also which will run afoul of the laws. According to our attorneys at the Florida Association of REALTORS things like French doors, black ebony woodwork, English gardens, etc are perfectly okay since they are not referring to a protected class. Doors are not protected!! Imagine that.

However, I do understand the frustration at times, but believe me there is still enough prejudice here to go around. I once heard an agent refer to a colleague's mixed-race child as an "it". And more than one racial joke has floated by my desk. Since we still have this type of thing in the country and in our business (sadly) I can understand the reasons why they authorities need to be super careful. And in the end we can always find another way of saying something so that it is appropriate. None of us is that illiterate not to be able to do that.

Thanks, Michelle and you are more than welcome!

I think it is a matter of describing the property and not the buyer, isn't it?

I am kind of confused by your: 

"Your home may be right in the middle of the financial district, near public transportation and have a free membership to the gym making it ideal for a working professional but I just can't say that. " 

I think you can say where a  property is.  If you described the buyer "working professional" perhaps that is unnecessary but  ....who would that discriminate against???

Race or Color
 or

National Origin

or

Religion

or

Sex

or

Familial Status

or

Handicap/Disability

?????  I am sure there are working professionals in all protected classes.

If you  describe the property  the buyer knows if it is of interest without you putting a label on them.

Thanks for the reminder!!  I see these violations ALL the time.

Alan - a church would imply a certain religion.  Not all religions attend a "church".  A shopping mall is neutral.  It is all in the way it is written - by saying across from a church (while you DIDN'T MEAN to imply anything) could potentially discirminate a buyer that attends a synagogue, etc.  I don't make the rules up.

You're welcome Juli!

Like you, Gary, I can see the rules getting stricter as well and including many more classes and situations.  It will be very hard to keep up.  However, Richard's self test in comment #6 would be a great rule of thumb to use.

Thanks, Gloria!

HAHA - too funny, William!  Feel free to share!

Thanks, June - I think many are taking this post as a professional reminder and some are taking a little too personally.  This was intended as a public post for sellers in my area.  Thanks for getting that!

You nailed it, loreena!  Thanks SO much for stopping by and commenting - i greatly appreciate it!

It appears from this blogpost and comments that there are a variety of opinions regarding acceptable advertising terms and permissible statements by real estate professionals under the Fair Housing Act.  Where overt discrimination is not obvious or intended, this is admittedly a potentially confusing subject with many gray areas.  While I'm no expert on the subject, it may be helpful for everyone to review the actual HUD position on real estate adversting.  It is my understanding (which is also supported by the NAR website), that current HUD enforcement policy regarding violations and compliance is outlined in a HUD Memorandum dated January 9, 1995.  The memorandum is accessible from the following NAR webpage:  http://realtorbenefitsprogram.org/government_affairs/diversity/hudpolicy

Concerning some of the comments to this blogpost, many specific subjects are addressed, such as:

"[A]dvertisements which are facially neutral will not create liability. Thus, complaints over use of phrases such as master bedroom, rare find, or desirable neighborhood should not be filed."

"Advertisements which use the legal name of an entity which contains a religious reference (for example, Roselawn Catholic Home), or those which contain a religious symbol, (such as a cross), standing alone, may indicate a religious preference. However, if such an advertisement includes a disclaimer (such as the statement "This Home does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, handicap or familial status") it will not violate the Act. Advertisements containing descriptions of properties (apartment complex with chapel), or services (kosher meals available) do not of their face state a preference for persons likely to make use of those facilities, and are not violations of the Act."

"Use of the term master bedroom does not constitute a violation of either the sex discrimination provisions or the race discrimination provisions."

"Advertisements describing the properties (two bedroom, cozy, family room), services and facilities(no bicycles allowed) or neighborhoods (quiet streets) are not facially discriminatory and do not violate the Act."

As with many other legal areas, the rules, regulations and administrative interpretations can change, so it is important that all real estate professionals stay as current as possible on these issues, but hopefully a review of this HUD Memorandum helps provide clarity on the issue in general and relieves some stress about using everyday, non-discrimnatory terms like 'family room' and 'master bedroom'.

While I completely appreciate your kind heart and willingness to help both buyers and sellers, Phil I must respectfully disagree.  I can not share certain information such as crime statistics with buyers - I will provide them with the tools to research the information themselves.  I am not lazy by any means - I just cover my ass.  I will adhere to the Fair Housing Act as it is written and refrain from advertising that a property is in a family neighborhood, etc. 

Just be careful - I am positive that you are a top notch agent and I would hate to see you get in trouble.

I remember reading somewhere that an agent put in "great view" and they were slapped with a discrimination claim because what if someone with limited vision couldn't see that "great view"?  It can get a little tedious, but this is indeed a CYA business.

You're welcome, Lottie!

Thanks for stopping by, Bob!  I got my interpretations directly from the Fair Housing Act.  Obviously we are interpreting things differently. 

We are very limited on what we can say in a listing nowadays. We have to be politically correct.  Sometimes that gets on my last nerve.

Great post, Leesa.

Hi Leesa,  Not sure how I would have answered a question about a " private seller " .

Great post: I just took both Federal and State NMLS (lender) licensing tests a little over a week ago so I became VERY well versed with all the laws/regs especially ECOA so it is timely for me to read as it applies in the "real world." I'm glad you took the time to spell out exactly why you can and can't include certain verbiage. Best wishes!

Thanks, Joe - great that you stopped by!

Joy - nope, master would not be discriminatory!  At least not yet!  ;)

Oh my goodness!   According to some of your readers, I guess I have been in violation as I described a home across from an elementary school.   Oh my goodness.........I thought I knew Fair Housing!

Wow, that is a lot to add on Tricia.  Each state does have some additional classes that everyone should familiarize themselves with.

I absolutely love your thinking, Margaret!  You can do TONS with pictures!!!!!

I absolutely love your thinking, Margaret!  You can do TONS with pictures!!!!!

Sorry, Tina - ya lost me.....

Nope, no rumors about "master" yet, Margaret.  YET....

Leesa - The fact that you were able to shed light on a subject that may be confusing to many newcomers and veternas alike is brilliant!  This "heads up" post and the productive comments by others will be helpful to somebody somewhere who wasn't aware of these nuances.

When I read your post one thing immediately comes to mind- For sale by owners thinking they can sell their home themnselves and underestimating the value of a real estate agent. As a past real estate investor I have had to deal with mediation, arbitration and litigation and I can tell you it is easy to hit 6 figures in legal fees, court costs and restitution if you make a "boo boo".

The cost of hiring a real estate agent is a bargain basement price when you consider that they take on the liability, the marketing and spend a lot of time getting the property sold all the while protecting your interests. 

If a homeowner believes that selling a home means sticking a sign in the front lawn and opening their door to potential buyers then they are naive and will likely get sued.Consequences of violating federal laws can be quite costly so hiring a real estate agent at their fee is a no brainer.

On a personal note:  You're a terrific person, a great asset to the residents in Wake Forest and I'm glad to know you personally and professionally.

Great job and congratulations on a well deserved feature!

Yes, Pam - you are SO RIGHT!  Renting is most definitely involved with the Fair Housing Act!  Thanks so much for commenting - you know i appreciate it!

A couple of weeks ago, I tried to describe a home as being "spic and span."  Guess what?  The listing service told me that I couldn't use the word 'spic.'  Would someone please prove to me that the listing service was behaving sensibly?  This is getting beyond good judgment or trying to avoid excluding people.  This is moronic.

I love the term Country Kitchen, Karen!  I may start using that!  I would like an attorney to come to our office - it really is something to hear all the things that we casually say that are WRONG!

The comments about crime in an area, what can be said, not said, CYA, etc.  A broker that I know showed a home,  (not his listing, but he lived nearby), and after a 2ND &3Rd showing, ouside the home, at night, said hat they would liek to buy it, but were concerned about crime.  He suggested a drive to the local precinct.

Arriving there, they saw an officer, and told him that they were considering buying a hosue in the X Block of Y Street.  The officer said that there are calls there almsot daily; 15 to 25 per month.  All were domestic disturbances.

The people said they would continue looking; the officer asked which house had they cosnidered.  They told him the address; the officer then went on to say, ALL of the calls were from or about  that hosue; went to the computer-only call on the street not about that- strange car ( was a visitor; parked a few hosues from where visiting).

So, in my view, better to elt someone else answer-about things like crime, etc.

My 5 cents

jay

Laws often overreach. It's extremely important to be careful about race or sex, but when advertising views, or discussing crime, I don't always agree.

A "great view" might not be seen by 1 vision-impaired buyer, but can be seen by thousands of others. An odd result is that the ones with good vision are not being told about something that would be potentially a selling point for them.

Selling in a resort town, I get a lot of people WHO ASK FOR/ NEED HANDCAP ACCESSIBLE units!  HHHMMM????? How can I find those units,since we can't "talk" about it????

Leesa, fantastic post! I can't even count how many times I've seen agents in my area post ads saying "great family home!" or "perfect for empty-nesters!". It always makes me cringe. It's so important to follow these laws and make the public aware of them, and this blog post explains that perfectly. Kudos!

Leesa - this is a great read. There are many issues to think about and we see possible violations in teh MLS all the time. The use of "family" may be the biggest.  The other common issue that was raised in a Fair Housing session at NAR was stating that a property is "walking distance" to ____ (again something we see all the time).  That becomes a problem from a disability standpoint or for someone in a wheelchair.

One wonders, though, if it sometimes goes overboard in terms of what is allowable and what is not and is some of the terminology open to interpretation. Better to err on the side of caution, I suppose.

I also learned alot about the Fair Housing testing that is being done at the NAR and wrote a post about is a couple of months ago. A good learning experience.

Jeff

So true, I saw one the other day listed as being close to a catholic school

So true, I saw one the other day listed as being close to a catholic school

That's really ridiculous. You would think regulators have something better to do than to make it harder for realtors to sell homes during one of the worst housing slumps ever. Good job government!

nice job explaining it all to a seller.  

Wonderful reminder for those agents who are unaware of just how careful they need to be.  Re-blogging!

Leesa, this is a great reminder, what amazes me is how many agents do not play by the rules, I am constantly seeing, "wonderful family neighborhood" "your children can walk to Blue Ribbon Schools" etc

Good Post, Great Reminder!

There are not many churches with wild beano games, drive thrus, use 24/7. Usually if a church or two are in the neighborhood that means quiet. Maybe Sunday gets activity, a Saturday wedding, funeral and add in a Wednesday night service and that is it. Great neighbor..no barking dogs, kids to key a car, or auto body guy pouding dents out, etc. But nope...church for neighbor causes air raids, copy sirens. Not because you said a kind of church..just that it is a good thing a church is next door. So left out of write up ... pointing at church with buyer and saying this is a quiet neighborhood. You made the connection why.

Sylvia - I remember when, at least in my area, Executive home became a no-no.  It implies a certain social class.

You are correct and that is the only way to advertise.  However, the purpose of the law is being abused by the people enforcing it.  We need more common sense.  I understand that maybe the walk score would be considered discriminatory against those with handicaps.

Bob - Although I personally don't believe words like family are discriminatory it isn't my call.  There are a lot of things I don't agree with that are law.  I want to remain in business for a long time therefore I adhere to what I interpret the law to state and would rather find a more productive means of advertising because I don't wish to earmark court costs and legal fees as part of my business expenses.

If you feel confident about your position and choose to use words like family in an advertisement then feel free.   I admire you because I know you are putting your money where your mouth is. 

(c) To make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discrimination. 

In my opinion executive living is indicating a preference for a specific social class.  No different than saying rich people.

Sandy - in my example you need to take ALL the terms into consideration.

"in the middle of the financial district, near public transportation and have a free membership to the gym making it ideal for a working professional"

when viewing the comment/advertisement as a whole then, yes, it would disuade families from potentially viewing the property.

Damn straight, Tony and I LOVE that you found the old post - fantastic reading!  you may want to blog that AGAIN!

Lyn - it's tough when a seller thinks that is beneficial to their home - it really isn't and we CAN"T say it!

Leesa: RE:#106 Thank you, I just hate seeing fear driving our country. Fear of being sued is not something I tolerate... in myself that is. I live by The Book and observe all laws that are written that I know of. That is what I'm directed by my God to do. I really feel that we error on the side of caution to the point where evil is now good and vice versa. I actually fight the root cause of this... it's spiritual to the core. And although "do unto others as you would have done..." is not actually Biblical scripture per se, and contrived by man interpreting the Bible, I'd say it covers much. Because of so many different cultures here in our world and how they mix together so much, it's a foregone conclusion that feelings will be hurt at times. I see people's hearts and not what I hear them saying, but that's me.

As for the term executive: There are executives and there are plumbers... I guess in essence and principle I'd have to agree with you and I've not seen anyone advertising Plumber neighborhood... although, I'd feel safe in flushing in that one. Rich does not equal bad. Executive could however chase away a good buyer who doesn't think of themselves as exectutives even when they have the money. Thanks for a very thought provoking topic today.

I'm just wondering when someone will start defending us bald people. I get offended at these Hair Club commercials. I feel fine with my aerodynamic look... and have saved a ton of money on haircuts!

No, Stephen - I am no way saying anything one way or the other - I just know I have to adhere to the law as I see fit.  Thank you so much for stopping by and commenting!

You funny Maureen!  Yes, there is quite a bit to keep up with and it becomes impossible!  We do what we have to do though.

I hear ya, Steve - that would be a very UNCOMFORTABLE place to be in.

Kathy  (#93) it does not violate fair housing to state what accessibility a property has.  You can say "wheelchair ramp, roll in shower, grab bars, etc" on your advertising.  What you can't say is "no handicapped people allowed."   You can describe the property and what amenities it has.  Seriously, this is spelled out on the HUD site. 

People tend to over think fair housing.  You can describe the property and it's amenities. You can say it is in the financial district.  You can say it is on a bus line or has a free gym membership.  Those are all okay things. 

Saying it is ideal for a working professional...dubious...since I think of DINKS (Double Income No Kids) when someone says that.

Describe the property and amenities and you are fine.  Don't state what type of buyer the house is perfect for and you are fine.  It is really that simple.

It's funny how many sellers are anxious to tell you how close their home is to the elementary school.

Are you kidding me, John???  I am floored by your colleagues comments - I honestly don't know how I would have reacted.  You bring up a very valid point though - the laws are made to compensate for those that may not know what to say.

Thank you for so clearly understanding, Maureen - it IS about describing the property!  As to your questions about my comment - please take it as a whole:

"in the middle of the financial district, near public transportation and have a free membership to the gym making it ideal for a working professional"

Yes, that is discriminatory - it could possibly disuade people with families from exploring the property further.  It would fall under familial status - it is implying that it is perfect for a single person.  While it could possibly be considered a loose interpretation I would not want to be the one on the bad end of a lawsuit.

I just finished some Continuing Ed classes and of course the dreaded Agency and Fair Housing. Then I logged on to AR and there wa syour post!!! How ironic?!? You rtitle caught me and I think I may have put something like "Great Family Home" on a brochure or two in the past!!!!! Holy crap, didn't even think that I was discriminating. I always knew, but Great Family home doesn't sound the same as "Great Asian Neighborhood" or something similar. I guess we have to really be careful these days.

Thanks, for the post.

www.SearchAZmls.com

Does everyone's MLS have a search criteria labeld "Single Family"?  Mine does!!

Oh, go ahead and say it ... then see how long it takes for someone to throw the Fair Housing book at you.

Just kidding!  Great post, Leesa!

It is so sad what our country has turned into. I know these laws are to over come what was once wrong.

But now we have gone overboard, Family room, I know the law says we can not say that.

But maybe we need to change the law. What is the harm in saying Family room.

Great yard, Will we be bashed for that some day. For the people that cannot go in the yard.

This country has gone too PC, I obey the rules , but the rules are stupid to a degree.

Lets face it, we need to change. Some schools are great, and some are not, same as neighborhoods.

Some are not fitting to live in, but sadley we cannot tell people that, and it has nothing to do with race or any of the protected groups, it is just a fact.

I'd like to know where the "family room" is not legal to print?? I have found nothing, anywhere, not just PA that stating there is a family room is against FH laws. Please enlighten me. And Darrel, amen.

Darrel (#122) you can say family room.  Family room is a common term used to describe a property, just like you can say Mother-in-law suite and bachelor pad.  Look on the HUD site.  I think it does a really good job of spelling these things out.  Saying "Family room" describes the property.  Saying "a great room for families" describes the type of buyer.  Describe the property and not the buyer and you are fine.

The day may come when we will only be able to say "house for sale" as it's getting ridiculous in advertising. No price in the ad as we wouldn't want to offend the folks who have no money now would we?

Some day, we will realize that all politicians and burrocrats are only there to benefit themselves with jobs that are not needed and do nothing to add value to society.

good information!

Good post. The responses from #125 and #126 are too close to the truth, sadly.

Sellers rarely realize that we are so boxed in with fair housing.  I know once that an agent in our office had a hard time typing in a description of a 55+ neighborhood because it was being kicked back as a fair housing violation. 

Kind of too bad we can't describe listings in common terms - almost have to keep the property description bland.

Pam you're right. Bland may be the way to go. Better that than an Ethics complaint.

Pam you're right. Bland may be the way to go. Better that than an Ethics complaint.

This is why we need to know the Fair Housing Laws. Some of us are violating these laws but we are just not aware of it. Thanks for sharing Leesa. Great post.

The MLS of Long Island had a filter that flags certain terms, like family. They also have a published list of forbidden words. Westchester has no such filter. 

What a world we live in! 

Very well written!  I will be reblogging!

Don't forget the NAR just added Sexual Orientation that can not be discriminated against! 

Laurie Sawyer

Exit Realty Firm

Providence, RI

This is something that bothers me...  But, I would like to point out something...  In the post, you state that we can't say that the house is across the street from 'such and such' Catholic Church.  I would disagree.  That is a specific location, and said like that, it helps a buyer figure out WHERE the house is.  Saying it has 'proximity' or is 'near' or 'convenient to' such and such Catholic Church WOULD be exclusive, because that is saying that the home is better suited to a Catholic. 

Saying that "Brookwood High School is the Best in the Area" might be a tough statement, but saying that "the Atlanta Journal and Constitution ranks Brookwood High School as the Best in Gwinnett County" would be a statement of fact (if it is true)... 

I think that too many people ignore the rules, and too many more go overboard.

I greatly appreciate all the comments that I have received on this post.  It is nice to see that everyone can debate this issue so openly.

I would also like to remind everyone that I don't make the rules.  I only follow the rules that are set forth in the Federal Fair Housing Act.  So, if you disagree it is not with me but with the Federal Fair Housing Act. 

Again, thanks to all of you for the comments and I will get back to addressing each of them individually tomorrow.

Oh jesus..( can I say that...) I recently sold a 7 bedroom 2 bath...who else would want it but someone with a BIG family...ton of kids....could I say that ever? NO.

Thankfully the 7/2 spoke for itself and we found the only other family in town with 5 kids to sell it to.

Good post.. Sometimes rereading my descriptions I see where I mess up and have to rewrite it..

Always an excellent reminder, thank you for sharing this post.  It's clearly defined, but comes up often.  

I think it's important to follow fair housing rules.  That said, I think common sense has a place too.

It's a crazy world.  I'm not sure if it was Colorado or a national ruling but we can't say walk to shopping, school etc.  This seems nuts to me.

I'm with Alan - this gets a bit beyond common sense. When you can't use words like see or walk because there's someone who can't do those things - it's just silly.

I do think the rules have eased up a bit from when they first went into effect - for instance, the last I heard they had decided that "walk-in closet" was a valid description even though not everyone can walk in.

For a while advertisers were being sued for mentioning Christmas or Easter... so we can be thankful that the rules have eased a little.

Thanks so much for posting this.  I can't tell you how many times I see listings with "Great for families" in the text.  I always use to rule that if you would feel uncomfortable with substituting one of the other protected classes, then don't do it!

Hi Leesa,

Good reminders, we always need to be careful about what we say and don't say.

~Lisa

Rules are there for a reason but like so many commented here, some are just plain silly.  Private is a word that often gets highlighted in our MLS.  I use it to denote a wooded lot or a lovely view.  We can't use it to denote exclusive, as in a club.  I'm sure all MLS's have similar rules.  We commonly use family room and master bedroom because this is what they are called.  Great post Leesa.  Congrats on the feature.  I somehow got unsubscribed so I am rectifying this right now.  xxoo  Enjoy the day!!  BTW, I've never gotten around to getting the second Julie and Romeo book!  I've got to get it for my vacation this year!

You can't legislate morality which is what many laws try to do and it beomes necessary to make them stricter and stricter as "violations" are found.  Interesting discussion.

Leesa, great point about listing the beneficial attributes of the home.

I love it. Just today someone wanted to use Family Friendly.

Mr. Schneider (Post # 89) siad "spic" not allowed-I don't know where he is, but having lived in New York, California; Tennessee & Florida, I can say the following-

At least in those states " "spic" is a derogatory term for Hispanics.  Same as "wop or guinea" for Itaians or "Krauts" for Germans.

"Spic and Span"  also was (possibly still is) a household cleaning dtergent- but might be "grandfathered" in, because around before PC.  (I don't know if still made or not).  If it is still made-might also be a trademark infringement(??)  (I am not an attorney)

Indeed a reminder. Especially when buyers ask for specific requirements that may involve fair housing subject matters.

So true yet so wrong.  It is sad that with a membership as large as REALTORS have we have allowed ourselves to be handcuffed by ridiculous regulations.

Leesa: Great reminder! Thanks - Carrie

I still think that the best ad I've found was "HUGE kitchen - a woman's dream!"  It still amazes me when I consider how that slipped under the radar.

Lessa, this is a great post and good reminder.  I am a newbie to ActiveRain and have discovered a wealth of information. I am so happy I joined!

So true Leesa!  Sounds like this happened to you with your sellers but hopefully you told them just like you did here.

I think we all "know someone" who has had a horrendous discrimination suit filed against them.  Kind of like we all "have a cousin" who dated Brittney Spears.

Looking through Lexis-Nexis, I can find no mentions of someone being sued for using the phrase "perfect for a large family."  I have a five bedroom home on the market right now., AND IT IS PERFECT FOR A LARGE FAMILY!  If a single guy or gal wants to buy it, great!  But let's use common sense.  The anti-discrimination laws do NOT stop us from using Master Bedroom, perfect for a large family, or similar terms.

God forbid I get sued by a quadriplegic because I've advertised a home as being in "a bicycle friendly neighborhood."

I'm with you Richard, excepting I don't know anyone who has been sued for discrimination in my 21 years associated in this business. This has been a fascinating post and commentary. I'm seeing a huge difference between east and west coast and all points inbetween.

Can i re-blog this please?  Great reminder and thanks for posting!

Can i re-blog this please?  Great reminder and thanks for posting!

Can i re-blog this please?  Great reminder and thanks for posting!

Thanks everyone for your continued commentary!  There are quite a few differing opinions here and I am enjoying seeing how each of you approach the Fair Housing Act.

What I've noticed in the comments to your blog is the redundancy of some of the agents.  When putting information out on the MLS or in paid advertising words are money.  So to write - 6 bdr, 4 bath, Great Family Home - well, yeah, unless you're renting the extra rooms to local college students or each of your dogs want' their own bedroom.   

Some folks pointing out the Catholic Church across the street as a great selling point.  Not necessarily.  You obviously haven't had the overflow park in your yard on Saturday afternoon or dodged the congregation as they rush to their cars after mass. 

I don't know about the other agents on here, I'm a professional Realtor, I am not the local police statistician, I do not know how the local Megan's list is generated, I do not know what my potential buyer's think a great Family Home consists of or what is a great Adult neighborhood, unless it is deeded over 55. 

What I do know are the local resources to provide to you for you the buyer to make your decision.  I do know what the features are of the home and the community where it is located.  I think being an expert in my field makes me a better agent and representative than trying to decide if it is family friendly home because it has a pool, or good only for adults who know how to swim because it has a pool.

btw - my own home is on a double lot, fenced in and we have a pool and lots of room, but we don't have children.  Would I have looked at your listing if it was headed - Family Friendly Home?

Amazing points to ponder, Cherry and I THANK YOU so much for commenting!

Lovely Leesa,
On my first listing I put some information in the MLS about all of the wonderful churches!  Thankfully I got a call almost immediately from a helpful agent.
Maya

I do hope the agent that called you Maya was nice - at least you found out before listings and listings go by and someone WAY more important caught you!

I have two comments.

The first--on MLS filters-our board here --  has two colors-yellow-possible violation-call for details; red- bad word (in comments).  I have a large buildable lot for sale, in a gated community.  I wrote something like (MLS printout not in front of me)- watch the sun sets from the rear  of the home that you build here.  THE WORD SUN WAS HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW.  Caution. I called- the reason ( talking about the ridiculous) saying SUN could mean SUNDAY (huh? was my reaction- read the rest of the sentence) and that would discriminate against people who worship on Fri and/or Sat.  THE WORD WORSHIP, CHURCHES, SYNAGOGUES, ETC NEVER APPEARED.

I had to send the board an email emphasizing that the layout of the lot gave a great western view, and the view was there SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, unless raining or storming (well, the view would still be there, just could not see it).

The second- concerning large homes- family, etc--just today I spoke to a gentleman who is looking for a 4 or 5  or more bedroom home, of 3,200 sq ft. heated, or more, because he and his wife have a large amount of art works and other items that they like to display and look at., and that they entertain a great deal, for business and pleasure.  No mention of children, asking about schools, or anything that would indicate that there are children.  So, I agree, saying perfect for the large family, etc- could be a turn off.

Someone, in a post here, asked, (paraphrasing) who but a large family would want a 5 bedroom home.  Here is one example-- possibly extreme, but sayign 5 bedrooms (IN MY OPINION) leaving out large family would suffice.

My 5 cents.

Joel

I have two comments.

The first--on MLS filters-our board here --  has two colors-yellow-possible violation-call for details; red- bad word (in comments).  I have a large buildable lot for sale, in a gated community.  I wrote something like (MLS printout not in front of me)- watch the sun sets from the rear  of the home that you build here.  THE WORD SUN WAS HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW.  Caution. I called- the reason ( talking about the ridiculous) saying SUN could mean SUNDAY (huh? was my reaction- read the rest of the sentence) and that would discriminate against people who worship on Fri and/or Sat.  THE WORD WORSHIP, CHURCHES, SYNAGOGUES, ETC NEVER APPEARED.

I had to send the board an email emphasizing that the layout of the lot gave a great western view, and the view was there SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, unless raining or storming (well, the view would still be there, just could not see it).

The second- concerning large homes- family, etc--just today I spoke to a gentleman who is looking for a 4 or 5  or more bedroom home, of 3,200 sq ft. heated, or more, because he and his wife have a large amount of art works and other items that they like to display and look at., and that they entertain a great deal, for business and pleasure.  No mention of children, asking about schools, or anything that would indicate that there are children.  So, I agree, saying perfect for the large family, etc- could be a turn off.

Someone, in a post here, asked, (paraphrasing) who but a large family would want a 5 bedroom home.  Here is one example-- possibly extreme, but sayign 5 bedrooms (IN MY OPINION) leaving out large family would suffice.

My 5 cents.

Joel

All good points, Joel!  I am still laughing though about the Sunday thing.....geez! 

Leesa - I cringe whenever I see ads saying things like "perfect for families". Thanks so much for going over the Fair Housing Laws in your post!

Very true! And I'm glad this was featured. I can't tell you how many times I see this type of wording in advertising of listings. Or the opposite... great senior community... only it doesn't have the governmental approval to actually BE a senior community! The CC&R do not specify a senior community.

Thanks, Coleen!  Some of the ads that I ahve seen are absolutely horrible and riddled with violations.

You're right, Lisa - the senior communities MUST be certified.  It does get frustrating and worst, when sellers see the ads that have the wrong wording of ther homes and wonder why we won't do it.......

 "Advertisements may not state an explicit preference, limitation or discrimination based on familial status. Advertisements may not contain limitations on the number or ages of children, or state a preference for adults, couples or singles." Under Section 804(c) of The Fair Housing Act.  A family can be of any sort and it is familial STATUS that is protected so you cannot say certain types of a family (with children or older adults) are NOT welcome.  Saying that a home is waiting for the perfect 'family' isn't in itself discriminatory.  Saying that the neighborhood consists of childless homes would be discriminatory as it indicates a 'preference'.  Your example "your home may be prefect for a large family, in a quiet, family neighborhood" is not discriminatory as it does not preclude a protected class.  I would eliminate the words large and quiet as those words are subject to individual interpretation.  A couple with pets my feel like they have a 'large' family as could a single parent of children.  Similarly how does one describe 'quiet' in a neighborhood? 

Thanks so much for sharing your opinion, Anonymous.  What we are dealing with are definitions as defined by law.  While a person with dogs may feel they are "family" they obviously are not - as defined by law.  It is, indeed, discriminatory for me to advertise a home as a "great family home" as it would discourage a single person or a couple without children from looking at the home. 

I agree with most of those who disagree with you. If you are describing a home or neighborhood as family friendly, that does not mean you are discriminating against those without families, or even steering those who do have families.  If a home has features that would make it a good fit for a medium or large "household" or family, it should be noted in the listing.  If that's against the law (and from these comments, there doesn't seem to be a consensus that it is) then they need to change the law.

After typing that, I just thought to myself, could you say "Hispanic friendly" even if the home had features that might appeal to a vast amount of hispanics based on cultural stereotypes, or if the neighborhood really loved the hispanic culture?  No, so maybe I'm wrong from a strict interpretation standpoint.

It's really all in interpretation, which is why we have a Supreme court.  There are laws that look black and white to one person, and grey to another, and it takes a higher authority to interpret the "intent" of the law.  The "intent" of fair housing was to prevent discrimination, and I have a hard time believing that describing a home as "executive" or "family friendly" is discriminating against those who are not executives or that have families.

So, good conversation nonetheless.